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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 7, 2010 12:56:00 GMT -4
His situation is no different than Matheson if he shows up. The poster I replied to was up in arms that kids would possibly talk NCAA then report to a Q team, well Ashley has been talking NCAA for a year and a half. Why should he be looked at any different than Matheson? He wasn't drafted until the 2nd round of his 2nd draft. The problem is players picking which team drafts them. Ashley clearly didn't do that, seeing as he didn't get drafted at all last year. That's why it's different. Why would teams pick a kid committed to U of Maine? Personally I don't see how this isn't a violation....but that's the problem with the rule....there's too much grey and no black or white.
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Post by MikeC on Jun 7, 2010 13:04:21 GMT -4
He wasn't drafted until the 2nd round of his 2nd draft. The problem is players picking which team drafts them. Ashley clearly didn't do that, seeing as he didn't get drafted at all last year. That's why it's different. Why would teams pick a kid committed to U of Maine? Personally I don't see how this isn't a violation....but that's the problem with the rule....there's too much grey and no black or white. You think this was a violation? So Halifax told Ashley sometime in the spring of 09 "Hey, tell everyone you're going NCAA for the next year and a half. We won't draft you this year, but we'll take you next year with our 3rd pick. Don't worry, noone else will take you with 120+ picks between now and then" If you want an example for Halifax, use Brent Andrews.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 7, 2010 13:14:29 GMT -4
His situation is no different than Matheson if he shows up. The poster I replied to was up in arms that kids would possibly talk NCAA then report to a Q team, well Ashley has been talking NCAA for a year and a half. Why should he be looked at any different than Matheson? He wasn't drafted until the 2nd round of his 2nd draft. The problem is players picking which team drafts them. Ashley clearly didn't do that, seeing as he didn't get drafted at all last year. That's why it's different. What difference does that make? I'm not saying he is/was bluffing, but if you're going to get pissed off that Matheson made a deal with a team(nobody knows for sure if he did), well Ashley had deals with Halifax and SJ that he would report there if drafted. You camn't be against it if others do it, but for it if it's your team.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 7, 2010 13:16:36 GMT -4
Ashley could have been drafted 114 times before Halifax took him this year (90 picks in the 1st 5 rounds last year and the 1st 24 picks this year). Nobody should be complaining about him. Guess that comment was for me and Know I will not be booing ashley. You cannot take every incident and compare it. Does not work that way in hockey. The matheson thing is totally different he was ranked 1st overall more implications come with that. But I will be booing Shawigan and the league if Matheson plays for them. How did he do anything different than Ashley? Ashley was a 1st round talent that slipped due to NCAA same as Matheson, the fact that one was #1 and the other was say #10 overall makes no difference. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 7, 2010 13:22:57 GMT -4
Why would teams pick a kid committed to U of Maine? Personally I don't see how this isn't a violation....but that's the problem with the rule....there's too much grey and no black or white. You think this was a violation? So Halifax told Ashley sometime in the spring of 09 "Hey, tell everyone you're going NCAA for the next year and a half. We won't draft you this year, but we'll take you next year with our 3rd pick. Don't worry, noone else will take you with 120+ picks between now and then" If you want an example for Halifax, use Brent Andrews. Like I said....lots of grey and no black/white when it comes to this stuff. If Ashley was up front about his intentions he gets picked higher last year....that's the point of all of this isn't it?
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Post by canbeer on Jun 7, 2010 13:26:46 GMT -4
I don't remember seeing an article last week from Ashely and his father saying that they are going NCAA. Last year it looked pretty certain Ashley was going NCAA... things change over the course of a year. It wasn't like he was waiving the NCAA flag all last week in order to get drafted by the Moose. Bottom line is that certain players have options and some Q teams vs. others have a better ability and means to get those players to choose the Q option.
It's the near impossible to prove "I'm committed 100% to NCAA" on the front page news while having a deal in place with a Q team that people hate and that they are trying to do away with... and it really did seem better this year.
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Post by canbeer on Jun 7, 2010 13:29:41 GMT -4
You think this was a violation? So Halifax told Ashley sometime in the spring of 09 "Hey, tell everyone you're going NCAA for the next year and a half. We won't draft you this year, but we'll take you next year with our 3rd pick. Don't worry, noone else will take you with 120+ picks between now and then" If you want an example for Halifax, use Brent Andrews. Like I said....lots of grey and no black/white when it comes to this stuff. If Ashley was up front about his intentions he gets picked higher last year....that's the point of all of this isn't it? Was he not upfront about his intentions last year?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 7, 2010 13:30:32 GMT -4
Bottom line is that certain players have options and some Q teams vs. others have a better ability and means to get those players to choose the Q option. Exactly....so why shit on Matheson and not Ashley? Both have the same options, only 1 is a year further along. IMO both kids should be lumped together, not 1 as an exception since he was lucky enough to fly under the radar last year while Matheson had a stellar 2nd half and ended up as the top rated player.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 7, 2010 13:32:24 GMT -4
Like I said....lots of grey and no black/white when it comes to this stuff. If Ashley was up front about his intentions he gets picked higher last year....that's the point of all of this isn't it? Was he not upfront about his intentions last year? Doesn't appear as if he was up front about them this year. I'm sure he was up front about them last year. I just don't see why it's illegal for Halifax to tell Ashley they'll try and pick him but it's encouraged for Ashley to tell 14 teams that he doesn't want to play for them since he has NCAA options.
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Post by MikeC on Jun 7, 2010 13:32:26 GMT -4
You think this was a violation? So Halifax told Ashley sometime in the spring of 09 "Hey, tell everyone you're going NCAA for the next year and a half. We won't draft you this year, but we'll take you next year with our 3rd pick. Don't worry, noone else will take you with 120+ picks between now and then" If you want an example for Halifax, use Brent Andrews. Like I said....lots of grey and no black/white when it comes to this stuff. If Ashley was up front about his intentions he gets picked higher last year....that's the point of all of this isn't it? My point is, if Ashley was trying to pick his own team by bluffing, he would have been taken last year. I'm not exactly sure what the Q expects to do with their new rule. It doesn't stop the player from lying, it only stops the teams from telling the player to lie. Maybe it does stop teams from being overly obvious and taking a suspected bluffer with their first available pick - they don't want the backlash and potential $100K fine. I actually don't have any problem with Matheson now. I won't lie, I was very skeptical when he came out 3 days before the draft and said he was going NCAA. Part of me is happy Halifax didn't have a deal with him and take him 2nd.
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Post by canbeer on Jun 7, 2010 13:37:27 GMT -4
He wasn't drafted until the 2nd round of his 2nd draft. The problem is players picking which team drafts them. Ashley clearly didn't do that, seeing as he didn't get drafted at all last year. That's why it's different. What difference does that make? I'm not saying he is/was bluffing, but if you're going to get pissed off that Matheson made a deal with a team(nobody knows for sure if he did), well Ashley had deals with Halifax and SJ that he would report there if drafted. You camn't be against it if others do it, but for it if it's your team. I would think Fournier had a deal with Lewi, Ciampini with Hali, Tesink with SNB and so on... the problem is having the deal while saying you are going the college route. Matheson is saying that and I believe him... if things change a year from now then that's great for Shaw but I don't think there's any deal there now. If Ashley told everyone last week he was 100% NCAA while he had a deal with Hali then that's too bad but I'm not sure that's what happened. I don't think the problem is deals, or options, or being able to convince players... I think the problem was the lying.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 7, 2010 13:39:50 GMT -4
Like I said....lots of grey and no black/white when it comes to this stuff. If Ashley was up front about his intentions he gets picked higher last year....that's the point of all of this isn't it? My point is, if Ashley was trying to pick his own team by bluffing, he would have been taken last year. I'm not exactly sure what the Q expects to do with their new rule. It doesn't stop the player from lying, it only stops the teams from telling the player to lie. Maybe it does stop teams from being overly obvious and taking a suspected bluffer with their first available pick - they don't want the backlash and potential $100K fine. I actually don't have any problem with Matheson now. I won't lie, I was very skeptical when he came out 3 days before the draft and said he was going NCAA. Part of me is happy Halifax didn't have a deal with him and take him 2nd. To me if both guys report, they have basically done the same thing, circumvented the draft. So if you are going to call for one of the players to be "banned from the draft", then the other should be also...which is what I said earlier.
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Post by canbeer on Jun 7, 2010 13:42:48 GMT -4
Bottom line is that certain players have options and some Q teams vs. others have a better ability and means to get those players to choose the Q option. Exactly....so why shit on Matheson and not Ashley? Both have the same options, only 1 is a year further along. IMO both kids should be lumped together, not 1 as an exception since he was lucky enough to fly under the radar last year while Matheson had a stellar 2nd half and ended up as the top rated player. I'm not shitting on Matheson. Did Ashley tell everyone last week that he chose NCAA? I'm not sure that he did. Who knows maybe he was upfront while those teams that called to inquire about him.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 7, 2010 13:42:56 GMT -4
How many teams does a kid have to tell he is going NCAA before it becomes a problem? If a kid tells 17 teams he is going NCAA for sure, but tells one team, "pick me and I'll report", then you have a pretty black and white case ... but what if he tells 2 or 3 teams he is going NCAA if they pick him, but indicates to the remainder that he is open to playing in the Q?
The league rule is stupid and unenforcable as currently in place, and I don't think they can come up with any better alternative ... they might as well just leave it alone and let it sort itself out.
What does the league do next year if there is a kid with high end talent, who comes out before the draft and makes the following statement: "In order to be perfectly clear of my intentions, if the following teams draft me I will report: Quebec, Montreal, Gatineau, Saint John, Moncton, Halifax. I am open to further negotiations, however will be keeping my options open should I be drafted by: Drummondville, Shawinigan, Victoriaville, Cape Breton, or Rimouski. I am not interested in playing for the follwoing teams, and will pursue an NCAA scholarship if drafted by: Lewiston, Val d'Or, Rouyn-Noranda, Baie-Comeau, Chicoutimi, Acadie Bathurst or PEI."?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 7, 2010 13:43:52 GMT -4
What difference does that make? I'm not saying he is/was bluffing, but if you're going to get pissed off that Matheson made a deal with a team(nobody knows for sure if he did), well Ashley had deals with Halifax and SJ that he would report there if drafted. You camn't be against it if others do it, but for it if it's your team. I would think Fournier had a deal with Lewi, Ciampini with Hali, Tesink with SNB and so on... the problem is having the deal while saying you are going the college route. Matheson is saying that and I believe him... if things change a year from now then that's great for Shaw but I don't think there's any deal there now. If Ashley told everyone last week he was 100% NCAA while he had a deal with Hali then that's too bad but I'm not sure that's what happened. I don't think the problem is deals, or options, or being able to convince players... I think the problem was the lying. But the interpretation of what is a lie depends what side of the fence you're on. To me Darcy Ashley didn't tell the truth about going NCAA if he goes to the Q....therefore he lied. Say what you will about the lengths he went to keep NCAA as an option but end of the day if he ends up in the Q there should be a couple questions asked as to how Halifax used a 2nd round pick on a kid headed to U of Maine who changed his mind. My problem is the Q is trying to crack down on something.....but nobody seems to know what....since every team seems to have a different point of view on what is a lie and when it's ok to lie.
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