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Post by sharrow on Feb 10, 2010 9:39:53 GMT -4
Now there you have it the situation is repeating itself only change is that Halifax now will host it 12 years apart with Saint John the frontrunner for the for the 2015 event. I surprised that Carey Price isn't arguing his point with CHSB they are both on the same wave length.
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Post by Beaver Banker on Feb 10, 2010 9:42:44 GMT -4
Put me on the board too then because I agree 100% with what CP is saying and it's not because I'm from Saint John either it just makes sense to give it to a city that is an equally good candidate but hasn't held the tournament yet ... not sure why that would come as a shock to some people. Not really sure why it comes as a shock that the league may give it to a city who hosted the tournament 12 years ago... Quebec City 1991 & 2003... just saying.. Who else bid in 2003?
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Post by canucklehead on Feb 10, 2010 10:20:36 GMT -4
Interesting but there is a small problem with your '91 & 2003 thought ....
In 1991 the winner of the bid was not guaranteed a berth in the Memorial Cup. The Remparts were eliminated in the playoffs that year so while Quebec got to host the tournament their team was not actually in it so that might explain more about why it happened.
For the record the 2 teams in the Memorial Cup in 1991? Chicoutimi & Drummondville.
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Post by Beaver Banker on Feb 10, 2010 11:33:28 GMT -4
But if they had been competitive, they'd have gone as hosts. Shawinigan lost in the semis in '85, and got to play as hosts. In 1991 Beauport (the '91 host - not the Remparts) didn't make the playoffs, so they were replaced in the Memorial Cup by the League runner up.
Halifax shouldn't have an issue being competitive.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2010 11:44:02 GMT -4
And it was the most profitable memorial cup in league history. That's gonna count for something too. As long as there are equally good candidates, halifax won't get it again. So would that line of reason fit for Moncton by any chance? After all Halifax has waited 6 years longer to get the tournament back. Somehow I think not
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Post by canucklehead on Feb 10, 2010 11:52:39 GMT -4
But if they had been competitive, they'd have gone as hosts. Shawinigan lost in the semis in '85, and got to play as hosts. In 1991 Beauport (the '91 host - not the Remparts) didn't make the playoffs, so they were replaced in the Memorial Cup by the League runner up. Halifax shouldn't have an issue being competitive. So using the Quebec Remparts an example is not actual even though it's the same francise and they didn't even play in the Memorial Cup so there are 2 reasons alone that make the situation different.
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Post by Beaver Banker on Feb 10, 2010 12:01:33 GMT -4
I'll give you that it's a different Franchise, though I'm not certain that makes a huge difference.
On your other point: Beauport missed the playoffs. If it's awarded to SJ/Shaw/Halifax and they miss the playoffs, I doubt they'll be playing either.
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Post by canucklehead on Feb 10, 2010 12:10:59 GMT -4
I'll give you that it's a different Franchise, though I'm not certain that makes a huge difference. On your other point: Beauport missed the playoffs. If it's awarded to SJ/Shaw/Halifax and they miss the playoffs, I doubt they'll be playing either. Chicoutimi held it in 1988 and were eliminated in the playoffs after winning their division and once again Drummondville got the host spot but The Sags were in the playoffs.
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Post by SteveUL on Feb 10, 2010 12:13:36 GMT -4
I think Saint John is clearly ahead of Shawinigan. My question is: what puts them ahead of Halifax, other than the fact that Halifax has hosted before and "it's not fair"? Not so much that they hosted before but that they hosted followed by Quebec City, Moncton, Rimouski, and now Halifax again? You don't see the issue with this? ... I would be very disappointed in the league and NOT if it wasn't Saint John because if they gave it to Shawinigan I could live with that they've been in the league a long time but there are plenty of teams that should have it before Halifax again and one of those is also Cape Breton. I agree that SJ should get it before Halifax gets it again. But we can take your logic another step ... and say Nova Scotia hasn't hosted since 2000 while an NB team hosted in 2006 ... NS deserves it before NB gets it again. It does have to be spread around though ... otherwise Halifax and Quebec would just take turns hosting. Montreal could also be fit into the arguement at some point ... they could host out of the Bell Centre ... but not this time around as they are still building a fanbase.
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Post by canucklehead on Feb 10, 2010 12:25:10 GMT -4
Not so much that they hosted before but that they hosted followed by Quebec City, Moncton, Rimouski, and now Halifax again? You don't see the issue with this? ... I would be very disappointed in the league and NOT if it wasn't Saint John because if they gave it to Shawinigan I could live with that they've been in the league a long time but there are plenty of teams that should have it before Halifax again and one of those is also Cape Breton. I agree that SJ should get it before Halifax gets it again. But we can take your logic another step ... and say Nova Scotia hasn't hosted since 2000 while an NB team hosted in 2006 ... NS deserves it before NB gets it again. It does have to be spread around though ... otherwise Halifax and Quebec would just take turns hosting. Montreal could also be fit into the arguement at some point ... they could host out of the Bell Centre ... but not this time around as they are still building a fanbase. Well using that logic the Maritimes should be happy cause Quebec should only have it once NS, PEI and NB have it so the province of Quebec only gets it every 4th time around ;D Great news for Rocket fans I suppose cause they don't need to share lol ... Kidding I know what ya mean.
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Post by canbeer on Feb 10, 2010 12:26:57 GMT -4
Not so much that they hosted before but that they hosted followed by Quebec City, Moncton, Rimouski, and now Halifax again? You don't see the issue with this? ... I would be very disappointed in the league and NOT if it wasn't Saint John because if they gave it to Shawinigan I could live with that they've been in the league a long time but there are plenty of teams that should have it before Halifax again and one of those is also Cape Breton. I agree that SJ should get it before Halifax gets it again. But we can take your logic another step ... and say Nova Scotia hasn't hosted since 2000 while an NB team hosted in 2006 ... NS deserves it before NB gets it again. It does have to be spread around though ... otherwise Halifax and Quebec would just take turns hosting. Montreal could also be fit into the arguement at some point ... they could host out of the Bell Centre ... but not this time around as they are still building a fanbase. You could say the East doesn't deserve it at all as going Quebec/East/Quebec/East isn't that fair for Quebec teams considering there's 11 teams there and 6 here. Everything else being equal, I agree that Saint John should get it over Halifax but if Halifax has a better bid... Part of the question is what's reasonable? How long should they (a team that has hosted before) have to wait before other teams are not given a big handicap against them in the bid process. If it's just based on a set of criteria then why bother with a bid process... why not just give it to the team that fits that criteria, wants to host it and who has never hosted it/has been the longest since they hosted it.
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Post by canucklehead on Feb 10, 2010 12:38:07 GMT -4
You could say the East doesn't deserve it at all as going Quebec/East/Quebec/East isn't that fair for Quebec teams considering there's 11 teams there and 6 here. Everything else being equal, I agree that Saint John should get it over Halifax but if Halifax has a better bid... Part of the question is what's reasonable? How long should they (a team that has hosted before) have to wait before other teams are not given a big handicap against them in the bid process. If it's just based on a set of criteria then why bother with a bid process... why not just give it to the team that fits that criteria, wants to host it and who has never hosted it/has been the longest since they hosted it. The thing with using all Quebec based teams is that some of them will not ever hold a Memorial Cup because they are just 2 small like baie Comeau for example they might get a Canada/Russia Series but they aren't going to be getting a Memorial Cup Tournament anytime soon let's face it. In the Atlantic we have teams like Bathurst and probably PEI unless they can build attendance they likely don't hold it either so it comes down to Halifax, Moncton, Saint John, and Cape Breton as the likely hosts in the Atlantic so it's probably not going to continue going back and forth but the 4 markets in the Atlantic are bigger then a lot of the Quebec markets (No disrespect intended there) just look at the average attendance in those 4 cities they are #2, 3, 4, and 6 respectively. So if they were to come back to the Maritimes more often that wouldn't be a huge shock to me at all.
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Post by SteveUL on Feb 10, 2010 13:20:52 GMT -4
You could say the East doesn't deserve it at all as going Quebec/East/Quebec/East isn't that fair for Quebec teams considering there's 11 teams there and 6 here. Everything else being equal, I agree that Saint John should get it over Halifax but if Halifax has a better bid... Part of the question is what's reasonable? How long should they (a team that has hosted before) have to wait before other teams are not given a big handicap against them in the bid process. If it's just based on a set of criteria then why bother with a bid process... why not just give it to the team that fits that criteria, wants to host it and who has never hosted it/has been the longest since they hosted it. The thing with using all Quebec based teams is that some of them will not ever hold a Memorial Cup because they are just 2 small like baie Comeau for example they might get a Canada/Russia Series but they aren't going to be getting a Memorial Cup Tournament anytime soon let's face it. In the Atlantic we have teams like Bathurst and probably PEI unless they can build attendance they likely don't hold it either so it comes down to Halifax, Moncton, Saint John, and Cape Breton as the likely hosts in the Atlantic so it's probably not going to continue going back and forth but the 4 markets in the Atlantic are bigger then a lot of the Quebec markets (No disrespect intended there) just look at the average attendance in those 4 cities they are #2, 3, 4, and 6 respectively. So if they were to come back to the Maritimes more often that wouldn't be a huge shock to me at all. I agree .. but at the same time the QMJHL is going to "look out for their own" and I don't think you'll see the non-Quebec teams hosting more often than the Quebec based teams. If you draw up a list of teams that are capable of hosting ... regardless of when they last hosted ... it looks like this ... Halifax Moncton Saint John Cape Breton Quebec Rimouski Shawinigan Chicoutimi Montreal (Bell Centre) Gatineau ? Not without rumoured renovations. I would not be shocked to see Montreal host this event in 2015 ... the Q would love to host it out of the Bell Centre. When you look at capacities ... Rimouski hosted out of a 5062 capacity building. Chic, Shaw and CB are 4724, 4400, and 4670 respectively ... with CB planning renovations that will push that over 5000 I understand. I'm not sure that Chic and Shaw are quite in the ball park when it comes to capacity to host this event ... and without the renovations, neither is CB. Did Shaw build their new building to be easily expandable ? So today .... there are really only 6 teams capable of hosting ... Rimouski and Moncton should be at the back of the line having hosted recently ... Halifax should be ahead of Quebec by the same rationale. That places SJ at the front of the line ... unless CB does their expansion ... and then they would be on an even footing. SJ would still have the bigger building ... but CB has been a strong market for a longer time period. But I have to ask the question again that one or two Halifax fans asked but got no answer ... how long is long enough to sit out before being ready to host again ? I don't know the answer ... but there will come a time when the pickings are slim and you are choosing a 4700 rink over a 10,000 seat rink ... and IMO thats the time they should be back in line.
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Post by defresh101 on Feb 10, 2010 13:29:42 GMT -4
Last time the Mooseheads hosted the memorial cup was 5 years before the Sea Dogs existed. So they can't host it until the Sea Dogs host it for the first time. That makes no sense. Can not start giving the Memorial cup first to teams just because they are an Atlantic team that never hosted it. Not to argue about who is a better team or a better franchise. As of course this year the Sea Dogs have a better on ice product. But with that being said Halifax deserves some repect and allowances, as they are the reason that English speaking nom Quebec teams are in the league. They broke the mold they blazed the path. Now if the Sea Dogs blazed the trail......If the Sea Dogs played as the only Maritime province in a Quebec League than I would say the deserve from extra treatment. Mooseheads changed the face of Q hockey. Without Harold Mackay would there even still be a Q league.
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Post by canucklehead on Feb 10, 2010 13:52:43 GMT -4
Last time the Mooseheads hosted the memorial cup was 5 years before the Sea Dogs existed. So they can't host it until the Sea Dogs host it for the first time. That makes no sense. Can not start giving the Memorial cup first to teams just because they are an Atlantic team that never hosted it. Not to argue about who is a better team or a better franchise. As of course this year the Sea Dogs have a better on ice product. But with that being said Halifax deserves some repect and allowances, as they are the reason that English speaking nom Quebec teams are in the league. They broke the mold they blazed the path. Now if the Sea Dogs blazed the trail......If the Sea Dogs played as the only Maritime province in a Quebec League than I would say the deserve from extra treatment. Mooseheads changed the face of Q hockey. Without Harold Mackay would there even still be a Q league. So what about the other teams ... Should teams like Saint John, Moncton, or Cape Breton take a backseat when Halifax wants to hold it because they blazed a trail? I sure hope not!
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